Singapore Government Press Release

Media Relations Division, Ministry of Information, Communications and the Arts,

MICA Building, 140 Hill Street, 2nd Storey, Singapore 179369

Tel: 6837-9666

TRANSCRIPT OF MINISTER MENTOR LEE KUAN YEW’S INTERVIEW WITH

NIKKEI KEIZAI SHIMBUN ON 8 AUGUST 2005

Q: “How do you estimate these 60 years? Has world headed down the right way?”

Mr Lee: “It’s very difficult to say. We have avoided a major world war between the Soviet Union and its allies - the Warsaw Pact, and the US and NATO. We’ve also avoided major conflicts between the US and China, and there’ve been no further clashes between major countries except between India and Pakistan. ( There was a ) big war between Iraq and Iran, but it was not going to involve the whole world. So wars were being fought by proxy in the Cold War, in Africa, in Latin America, guerilla warfare, and even in Asia. On the whole, it was not bad. The world avoided catastrophe. It was the nuclear capabilities of the big powers that prevented conflict between great powers.”

Q: “However we still have serious problems such as international terrorism and regional conflicts. Some say the situation is getting worse. ”

Mr Lee: “I think international terrorism, meaning Islamic terrorism, will continue for a long while, maybe five or more years. But unless they get weapons of mass destruction, nuclear or radioactive materials, chemical and biological, the numbers they can kill will be limited. So they can infuse fear, give people a sense of insecurity. They can kill tens, maybe hundreds or 3,000 in the case of the World Trade Centre. But they cannot destroy a country, they cannot take over a country. They will lose in the long run because as it goes on, the victims in non-Muslim countries will take counter measures. First harden their security targets, second intelligence sharing and stop funds. Third, as you have seen in Britain, change the laws. So increasingly Muslims in non-Muslim majority countries like in Europe, America or Asia, they have to take a stand.

“Watch what is happening in London, the people, meaning Whites, are going up to Muslim women with headscarves and slapping them. They are also vandalizing the mosques. The leaders may say the bombings are done by extremists but people believe then silent British Muslims are protecting the extremists. You are hiding not exposing them. So unless the moderates and the rationalists take a stand, they will be marginalized. Therefore for their own self-protection, they will have to take a stand.

Moderate Muslims in Muslim majority countries, if they don’t take a stand, they will become victims of the extremists like the Talibans in Afghanistan. In Iraq, today there’s terrorism against the Americans and coalition partners but they are killing more Iraqis than Americans. Within two years, maybe less, American and coalition troops will go down by large numbers, and the Baathist and al Qaeda terrorist will be fighting Iraqi Shiities and Kurds, terror against their own Iraqis. So those opposing to the terrorists, the Shiites and the Kurds will hit back. And the Sunnis will have to decide whether as a minority of 20 per cent, they want to be isolated in their own country or they stop and expose the terrorists them. It may take several years, I do not see this going on for ever. Within five years the intelligence, military and counter-terrorist agencies will become more skillful and more protective to prevent such attacks.

If the extremists take over, as in the case of Afghanistan, the Americans and eventually also the Europeans, will take military action.”

Q: “What is the ultimate goal of East Asia community?”

Mr Lee: “As we understand it, it is building up greater cooperation for economic and eventually security, confidence- building and stability.”

Q: “What is the ideal form of the community in a long term in your view? Will it be possible for the East Asian countries to form something similar to the European Union?”

Mr Lee: “It depends on what you mean by long term. If its 200 to 300 years maybe. But if you say 50 to 100 years, I think the best we can hope for is an economic community, not a political community. Because in Asia, the differences in culture, language, religion, race are so different and disparate, it’s difficult to have such a community like EU. In Europe they are all Christians, all Caucasians, sharing the same culture and religion from the time of the Roman Empire. And they’ve gone through two world wars which showed how destructive it was and therefore, there was a desire to unite and stop rivalries that would lead to a third world war between European states. But Asia has not reached that point and it’s more difficult. If you take East Asia, strictly speaking, North and South Korea, Japan, Vietnam and China. They have one common characteristic. They share the Chinese script and with it, Confucianist ideas. They are more homogenous and racially they are similar. Even so, there are so many differences among them and I think it will take some time. But if you include Asean, I find it difficult to see an East Asian Parliament like the EU parliament in Strasbourg. So let’s aim first for economic community, common market, common standards, allow trade and investments and people, goods and capital to move freely. That is achievable in 50 years.”

Q: “We observe increasing nationalism in countries like in Japan, China, Taiwan and Korea. What do you see of this surge of nationalism? Is there a common background?”

Mr Lee: "It's difficult to predict how it will develop. In the case of China, it's because the uniting force of the communist ideology is gone. The unifying force now is love for the country and desire for progress. So patriotism and nationalism. As for Korea, it's very different. It is a desire to find a way to reunite without the enormous burdens that the West Germans paid to reunite with the East Germans. So I do not see the same level of nationalism. But among the young, there is a growing feeling of antagonism against Americans for dominating them. They want to get rid of the Americans, that may be unwise. But it is their country and their future. Japan, I don't see a rising nationalism. There is a desire to reassert Japan's position as what Mr Koizumi calls “a normal country”. In other words, no inhibitions about defence. So the Self Defence Forces become a proper defence force that goes abroad to conduct peacekeeping operations and so on. I do not believe, for the moment anyway, that the Japanese nationalism is going back to the levels of that before the war, when there was a tremendous belief that Japan would conquer the world. Today, it's obvious that cannot be done.

“Taiwan, I don't think it's nationalism. Just wanting to stay separate from China. So they're moving away, changing their history books, maps, and even changing their language. It's a defensive strategy to say we are different. So please leave us alone, we don't want to reunite. These are completely different motivations."

Q: " There are many problems between China and Japan. What should Japanese government do to come to terms with the past and move on ?"

Mr Lee: "I have discussed this many times with Japanese leaders. I said do what the Germans have done. Acknowledge what you have done. Put it all out. Nothing new will come up after that. Say sorry. Whatever personal sufferings will be compensated and close the matter. The problem in Asia is that the Koreans, Chinese and many in Southeast Asia do not believe that Japan is really sorry. Japan is sorry it lost the war. That is the problem. When you say in a ritualistic way “we are sorry, we apologise”, and then the leader goes to the Yasukuni Shrine. It is a never-ending problem. Is it necessary? It cannot be repeated. China has nuclear bombs. Even if Japan has a nuclear bomb, it cannot be used. You cannot attack China any more. You cannot even attack Korea. So why not close the subject? I do not understand this."

“ Stopping (going to Yasukuni) and saying really I am sorry I have closed this chapter. I have no intention of attacking anybody in the future. If you say this, like the Germans have said it, and it is believed and it will close the chapter. You remember Willy Brandt, German Chancellor, he went to a Polish war memorial and knelt in front of that war memorial. Nobody asked him to do it. He did it out of his own free will. He was sorry the Germans brutalised and conquered the Poles."

Q: " How will the resurgence of China and India change East Asia?"

Mr Lee: "It will not just change East Asia, it will change the world. In 50 years, if they progress at the rate they are going. Of course, it will slow down as they get higher and higher per capita income. But in 50 years, China's total GDP will be equal to that of the United States. And India may be about 50-60 per cent of it. So the weight of the world, or the centre of gravity will not be Europe and America, but East / Southeast/South Asia and America. If you watch movement of ships, trade, people, it will be the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, not the Atlantic any more. That's a massive change. You can see it already in the trade figures. Japan's biggest trading partner today is China, not the US. US market is saturated. Cell phones, cars, motorcycles…China will need every consumer product and in large numbers. It is the same in India. And India may have a bigger population than China by 2050. It's going to be a very different world."